Welcome to Corporate Chat, a recurring feature in PGA Magazine that brings you candid conversations with leaders from across the golf business. This month, we talked with legendary golf club designer Roger Cleveland, who founded Cleveland Golf in the late 1970s and designed what would become its flagship product, the 588 wedge series. After leaving his namesake company in the 1990s and spending 20-plus years as chief golf club designer at Callaway Golf, Cleveland recently returned to Cleveland Golf as Founder and Advisor.
Cleveland recently sat down for a conversation with PGA Magazine about the state of the golf business, the role of PGA of America Golf Professionals as stewards of the game and what excites him about the next phase of his career.
How does it feel to return to the company you started in 1979?
Roger Cleveland: It for sure feels like a full circle moment. You know, I didn’t really want to leave when I did back in 1995, so it’s exciting beyond words to get back. I sure hope to add to the great things that the people in R&D and management at Cleveland Golf are doing. I mean, the first product I brought into the world as Cleveland Golf, which was originally called Cleveland Classics, was a persimmon wood. That means I’ve been around a while, don’t you think?
But it’s been so exciting to watch how golf club designs have evolved. Sometimes things are a little crazy and even a little unnecessary, but it’s always interesting. The R&D folks here at Cleveland have really opened their arms to me, and I’m trying to pass along what knowledge I have and we’ll see where we go. It has been fun so far.
How has the advance in technology made it possible to create better club designs over the course of your career?
Cleveland: If you make something really good, it endures long enough for people to copy it. Look at Ping and the Anser putter – how many gazillion times has that been copied? I guess I’m fortunate you can say the same about our 588 wedges, which is still very similar to the balanced shape of the current Cleveland RTZ wedges. Something quite interesting is going on with materials, though. Everyone’s been using the same 8620 castable carbon steel in wedges for a long time because it’s easy to produce wedges in quantity with it.
But Cleveland has a metallurgist by the name of Boeing Smith who developed a variation on the steel called Z-Alloy that is much more durable. The grooves will last two to three times longer than the same grooves in an 8620. We’re getting some nice comments from our tour players about the feel of the new steel, and they like that they don’t have to change wedges as often. I think this is also going to have real value to the club golfer, since their wedges are going to perform like new for a longer period of time.
What role have PGA of America Golf Professionals played in your success as a golf club designer, and in your enjoyment of the game as an avid golfer?
Cleveland: PGA of America Golf Professionals have been incredible to me. Some have become good friends, and any friend you make in golf is a true friendship. I’m a member at a few clubs, and I always appreciate how much the professionals do and how they’re as crazy about golf as I am. They’ve always given me great feedback on my designs, and I’ve always encouraged them to emphasize and teach the short game – both because that’s a part of the game I love, and because it’s an area where the amateur can really focus if they want to improve.
Sometimes I’ll be asked to talk to members at a club about design or my career, and I’ll always ask the room when was the last time any of them took a short game lesson. Out of 50 or 60 amateurs in the room, maybe one hand goes up. So, I will be glad to see more and more professionals teaching the short game, because not many club players can hit it 300 yards off the tee, but they could all get better from 40 yards and in.
Golf is going through a very strong cycle of growth over the past five years. What’s your take on the state of the business?
Cleveland: I have to again point out what the PGA of America and its Members are doing in terms of stewardship of the game, and what a great benefit that is for all of us in the game. We have this great interest in the game and growth, and now we have to take care of it and sustain the interest of folks playing golf. PGA Professionals are so good at managing the game and making sure people enjoy themselves. As an industry, we need to take a common-sense approach and keep the game accessible, and make sure that everybody who wants to play this great game has a chance to do so.
You’re an avid golfer yourself. What do you find exciting about the game at this point in your career?
Cleveland: There are a few things that have me really excited. For one, golf instruction is so good now and there are so many coaches who really connect with players and help them enjoy playing the game. Then that follows along with all the opportunities for communicating digitally now, on Instagram and other apps. Good teachers can make an impact beyond their home clubs by reaching so many people online. I think that’s what is going to continue growing the game. Amateurs have so many ways to get better now through coaching, and when you get better you play more. And for those of us in the golf business, that’s a win-win.