special report:esg
Goldman Sachs’ Maria Silvia Bastos Marques, who heads the committee that runs the Brazil operations, says greater inclusivity in top management helps the bottom line
By Thierry Ogier
It’s rare to find a woman in the upper echelons of management, especially in Latin America’s male-dominated banking industry. But Maria Silvia Bastos Marques is a noticeable exception. As head of the committee that runs Goldman Sachs’ Brazilian subsidiary, she has a lengthy resume that included stints as the CEO of Brazil’s state development bank, BNDES, and president of the largest integrated steel company in Latin America, Companhia Siderúgica Nacional (CSN).
Bastos is an outspoken advocate for diversity in the workplace. Along with the female CEOs of the Brazilian units of UBS, Deutsche Bank and BNP Paribas, she has just launched Develop and Achieve Women, a program to help female executives in banking to reach the top or their organizations. She recently sat down with LatinFinance to discuss the importance of diversity and how to achieve meaningful change.
How tough has it been to reach the top levels of management?
I haven’t had a very usual career. I almost started at the top. According to my original career plan, I ought to have been an academic. I wanted to be a professor. I did teach finance at the Catholic University of Rio, and I worked at the research department at the Getulio Vargas Foundation in Rio. It was just by accident that I was invited to work at the Ministry of the Economy at the beginning of the Collor government. I was about 32 at the time. It was a huge responsibility. Then I was secretary of finance of Rio. Then I moved to the private sector. I was CEO of two companies.
It all happened by chance. It was not a planned thing. I cannot say I suffered from a lot of prejudice in my career, but I know this is not a typical path. Usually in a financial institution or another company, it is not usual that a young lady manages to reach the top. What you see very frequently in all kinds of institutions is that you have a broad base of female and male staff. But when you move to the top, there are very few women around. This happens all over the world.
“WE WANT PEOPLE WHO LOOK AT THE SAME ISSUES IN A DIFFERENT WAY SO THAT YOU CAN ADD TO THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESSâ€
Why is diversity important in any company?
We want diversity. We want to have people who look at the same issues in a different way so that you can add to the decision-making process. This is what companies have been understanding. Having more diversity in the executive committee, at the top level of management, board of directors…this does bring value. You can have better decisions. You can understand what your clients, your suppliers think in a better way because the world is diverse. You have women, you have black people, you have Asian people, you have Latin people. If you can have different people think in a different way about the same question, you will probably have a better understanding of the matter in order to find a better solution. Everybody needs to be aware of this and discuss this. It is not a fashion. It does bring value to the company.
You have also launched a wider initiative, called Develop and Achieve Women, with other female CEOs in the Brazilian banking industry, to boost female involvement in banking and to train young female students to become future leaders. How important is this?
This is about women leadership and understanding how to welcome more of them. First of all, [banking] is still a male-dominated industry. The majority of head hunters I deal with are men. They tend to think along the same lines. They are men. They are white, middle class, with kind of high-level education. They tend to replicate the same pattern. This has to change and this is what we are aiming at. We are aiming at more diversity by addressing these young ladies when they are at university. What we want to show them is that they can and are able to achieve, that they have the same skills [as men]. And more than that, their behavior can make a difference.
When I think of my career, and my partners from other banks may share the same thing, sometimes women are more demanding and have a greater sense of self-criticism. Men always tend to think they are ready to do anything, even if they can’t. But this is not the case with women. Personally speaking, I am always very critical, I always think rationally. Can I do this or not? We are trying to show these young people, future leaders, that financial markets are no different from other places. It is to let them know about our own experiences and about mentors’ experience. So it is not a training in terms of skills, it is a sort of personal involvement with them to show them the kind of personal behavior that will help them in the future.
Looking back, I would say [being a woman] did help me lot. In a male-dominated environment, especially when I was a CEO of a steel company, I would dare to say that I was more successful of achieving the transformation of the company than I would if I had been a man, because I was thinking in a different way than others who were around me. Now I am very happy to be at Goldman Sachs where it is a priority.
There are various organizations dealing with these issues like WILL, Women Leadership in Latin America. How effective do you think they have been?
They have been very effective. In fact, they are partners in this initiative and others we have in different companies. Sometimes you really have to push to make things move faster. For instance, I used to be against quotas generally speaking, but I changed my mind. Because it can be a bridge to another situation. It can speed up change and help women. You can set targets: let’s have 50% of female interns. It is a target. You have to push. WILL does this kind of thing and helps things to change.
Have things already begun to change in the financial industry in general?
Investment banks are traditional companies, just like other industries. It is not easy because they are too big. But if they start discussing this and set priorities, I really think those changes should come from the top down. It has to be a priority of top management, otherwise it does not happen. They are two opposite forces: one that comes from outside and one from inside companies themselves. They can bring more value if their employees’ base is more diverse.
Where are the gaps? What needs to change now?
The most important thing is to be aware of the question, to pay attention. I did not pay attention to these issues. I would attend meetings during a week, but I would not pay attention to how many other women I would see. Now I pay a lot of attention to that. Unfortunately, there are weeks where I do not see any other women at all. It is important to pay attention to this, up and down. Look around, I see a black face, I see a woman. Having targets, and also being top down. Changes must come from the top: the CEO, the president, the board of directors. They have to set targets internally and really go for it!
Beyond the corporate world, do you see a greater awareness of the need for diversity?
There is a demand from society, a demand from young people. In the future, they want to think about themselves as being equal, men and women. I have a very good experience of that, because I had twins – a boy and a girl, now 22 years old. And I raised them this way. I think they should have equal opportunities. Why not? They both have skills, but they think differently. This is how it should be. Change starts at the family level. The way you treat your children, boys and girls in the same way. Make them understand they have to share things at home, that they can do the same things. That everything is open to them, and that being different is not a minus, it is actually a plus.
